Chat corner 89: Obi-Wan Kenobi

[annathecrow]

Welcome to the Monday chat corner!

This week, the topic is Obi-Wan Kenobi, the Disney live-action show. It’s been out long enough now, so spoilers are allowed, although you’re welcome to use the <details> tag to hide them:

<details> <summary>spoiler</summary> Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father.</details>

Have you seen the show? What did you think? Would you recommend it? Any fic recs?

Comments

[cofax7]

I really appreciated the character work on the show: it wasn't what I expected, but they really leaned hard into Obi-Wan's trauma after the events of RotS, and how hard it would be to come back from that to a place where he could value himself and do good in the world. I thought that was really valuable, and it was clear they had thought hard about how to get him from RotS to that one scene in Rebels: this got him most of the way there. And of course the acknowledgement that Anakin was responsible for his own choices was vital, although I would have appreciated some textual indication that he had also been failed by both Obi-Wan and the Jedi.

I liked the brief time we got with Owen and Beru, and with Bail and Breha: both loving and caring parents, with wildly-different attitudes towards Obi-Wan and the Jedi.

Many of the secondary characters were too briefly-drawn and needed more time to breathe, time which I thought was wasted in extended action sequences.

The plot and the writing I thought were pretty weak, however. It was a lot of running around with fairly poor logic underpinning it all, and people made stupid decisions for the purposes of the plot, which always annoys me. They had the time and money to do this better, and they didn't.

The scene where Obi-Wan shoots the gate lock and then the camera shows you that they could have just walked around it? Or the one where Obi-Wan sneaks Leia out under his coat? That was nonsense and also a pretty damning indication of failures at the directorial/show-running level. That was the kind of scene you can get away with in animation, but not live-action.

After Andor, we know that D+ can make an excellent SW show, with great writing, subtle characterizations, and a plot that holds together. So as much as I liked seeing Obi-Wan and the others, and appreciated the introduction of Reva, and I adored little Leia -- I'd rate it at no better than a B.

Sorry to be a downer!

[astromech1138]

I agree with this assessment! I think I liked it more as it was coming out--possibly because it was so much better than Boba Fett?--but I tried to rewatch and just found it lagging and overall uninspired, even if there were parts and performances that I enjoyed. (But even one of the best scenes--that duel--had already been done in Rebels.)

I'm glad we got to see depressed Obi-wan, though. Wasn't the rumor that the first script was too depressing, so they threw it out and started again? With Boba Fett and Kenobi, the showrunning seemed all over the place (I loved Deborah Chow's episodes of Mandalorian so I know I enjoy her SW directorial work), maybe because they are trying to pump out too many shows too fast. Here's hoping this year's batch had a little more time to develop before the cameras started rolling...

[annathecrow]

Thanks for the mini review! That's disappointing, but at least it feels like there's something the show is worth watching for - I mean, I'm willing to suffer a weak plot if the character work is strong enough.

Still, I hope the next SW shows are more like Andor in the quality of writing. It honestly got a bit awkward when I looked back on The Book of Boba Fett after Andor, because it's so much more obvious how bungled that show was.

[vysila]

Although I would give this show an A- score, a little higher than the two previous posters, I do have to admit there were issues.

spoiler

I was confused right from the start with the Inquisitors. They were completely new to me and the weird naming convention made them ridiculous rather than fearsome to me. But seeing Obi-Wan so tired, so defeated and using his duty to Luke as an excuse to not help others was chilling. Had I not seen TCW before this, I would have wanted to kick him. But understanding now how close he and Anakin were and how much betrayal and guilt Obi-Wan wears at this point helped me get through his struggle and that painful, painful first episode.

Little Leia annoyed the hell out of me at first. Too precious, too precocious for my taste. But by the end of the second episode I was in love with her. "Grandfather, maybe?"

I was intrigued by the idea that using the Force comes with a 'use it or lose it' clause. Obi-wan was really struggling there for the first three episodes.

It took me a while to realize that Reva was the little girl from the opening scene. The fact that the other Inquisitors actually refer to her by name a couple of times finally pinged on my brain.

And... wait, there were not just one but TWO direct encounters with Vader? Two lightsaber/Force fights? But at least they did retro-fix how Obi-Wan addresses Vader as Darth in ANH.

Gotta agree that there were places that dragged because the plot was advanced by bad choices and unimaginative writers, but it did not bother me as much as it might have, because this show was primarily a character study of a once great man rebounding from absolute devastation. He found his purpose, his self again, and I loved that.

Also, I loved the final episode. Luke! Reva's reasoning in coming after him was flawed, I thought, but in the end she did the right thing. And Leia's adorable holster and boots outfit at the end, how cute was that?

Maybe I liked it better because I haven't kept up with all the newer media? I've started Rebels now so whatever y'all are referring to from that show went right past me.

[astromech1138]

I'm glad you're watching Rebels! You'll soon know all about the Inquisitors :) But tbh this is one of the things that annoys me about all the live action SW shows (bar Andor): the way you have to have watched *everything* to make sense of key elements of the new shows. To me, the way it's being done isn't expanding the universe so much as shrinking it. (Makes watching the shows chronologically in-universe a bit difficult for a first-timer, too.)

I found the opening scene incredibly difficult to watch, especially because the Uvalde shooting had just happened (they should have reconsidered including it), that I didn't notice for the longest time that Riva was in that scene, either.

[vysila]

Oh my, I can imagine the reaction to watching Order 66 carried out on the younglings so soon after Uvalde. I can understand why they did not pull the scene plot-wise, but still, not a good thing.

And what you say about the expansion material shrinking the universe instead of expanding it is a complaint I've had for a long time. It is the main reason I quit reading the Legends material. I like leaving the future wide open for my fanfic. And basically the Old Republic material, at least at this point, does not interest me much.

Also, I think I am going to have a very unpopular opinion of Rebels. I can enjoy it as a standalone space story but Ezra annoys the dickens out of me! I feel like he's a Marty Stu version of Luke, only intended to be better. Everything about him diminishes the mythic quality of Luke's growth and journey in the OT.

[astromech1138]

A "some content may disturb viewers" disclaimer was added to the beginning of Kenobi, to be fair...but only way after the fact. When the show first aired, it was incredibly disturbing to be thrown into that scene without any warning.

I'm in the habit of treating anything other than the OT (and now Mandalorian and Andor, because they're so good) as a type of authorized fan fiction (and honestly, I've often read better, more creative fan fic than a lot of the Legends or recent tv/movie materials, like, ahem, yours or Cara's). Fortunately readers don't really seem to mind if you deviate from canon (at least the five of us still reading Han/Luke fics, anyway).

Rebels starts off rough, and Ezra is very annoying especially at the beginning. But definitely the third and fourth seasons have good moments. LOL he is definitely a Marty Stu Luke. (This is something that really annoys me about the "expanded" universe: it so often isn't expanded but a retread of characters or plotlines.) Kanan, Hera, Sabine, and a few other "special appearances" characters I won't spoil make the final couple of seasons worth watching. That said, I don't think Rebels is necessary the way The Clone Wars is.

Andor is next for you, once you're done Rebels, right?

[vysila]

I see there are warnings when I queue up various shows, even the animated ones.

A rough start to Rebels is putting it kindly. Ezra is SO annoying. And what, they gave him the exact same birth date as Luke & Leia? Could they be more obvious with the Marty Stu? I'm hanging in there, though.

I may take a break from SW for a while after Rebels and try something different.

Speaking of Cara, did you see that she is bringing her Kingdom of Shadows trilogy to AO3? One chapter per week. She's spent a good 3 or 4 years re-editing the novels.

[astromech1138]

Oh jeez, I didn't realize they gave Ezra the same birthdate as Luke and Leia. Very cringe! I hope Rebels isn't burning you out on the new shows.

I did see that Cara is posting Kingdom of Shadows! I'm so excited: Millennium Deal blew me away. Are you still in touch with her? It's so nice that you all are making sure your work remains accessible.

[vysila]

I must admit I am choosing to take a short break from Star Wars right now; Rebels is not to my taste at all. I gave up after discovering the birthday thing, made me mad.

I'm so glad you're enjoying Kingdom of Shadows. The nice thing is that there are three novels and they're all complete, so it's not so hard to wait when you know they will all be posted regularly.

Yes, I am still in touch with her. She's very special to me and has been for about 25 years. I miss collaborating with her, though. She doesn't really have much time for fanfic these days.

[astromech1138]

ugh, I'm sorry Rebels turned you off so much! The new stuff is so hit-or-miss, which is why I start with recommending the good stuff and then gently see how high someone's tolerance for nonsense is ;)

I'm really happy that Cara is updating K of S every week! I love a good serial read. And I'm glad to know that you are still in touch--that's not easy!

[vysila]

I'm working up to watching Andor soon. From what I've heard, there shouldn't be too much conflict with the original trilogy.

I need to read KoS myself. I helped with the edits a while back but am sure she's made more changes since then. She always tinkers (like most of us, I suppose).

[astromech1138]

Oh good, I'm glad to hear you're open to watching Andor soon! (I might recommend carving out the time to watch the first three episodes at once, like it was released, since the slow build can be off-putting at first--but so, so worth it.)

The tinkering is worth it! It's so nice to lose yourself in a story.

[vysila]

I'm thinking I may start Andor tonight and will try writing a running commentary of my impressions. Not sure I'll manage 3 episodes though, after the day I've had I think I'll be lucky to get through one! LOL!

[fleurviolette]

I really wanted to like Kenobi but the show overall was messy and nonsensical. The writers should have followed the Kenobi novel, or Leia should have had her own show.

[annathecrow]

I haven't read the Kenobi novel, but I've seen someone on social media live-blog it and they were cautiously positive. If you've read it, would you recommend it?

[fleurviolette]

I would not recommend it at all. The show breaks lore of the original Star Wars film so it wouldn’t make sense to watch it.

Fic rec

[ironymaiden]

Best if you have seen TCW, but The Mandalorian may be enough. Tags are full of spoilers so I would ignore them if possible. Chapter 1 stands alone; if you read the full work it has an alternate (happier) ending.

Mar’eyce Summary:

An alternate take on Part V of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

What happens after Obi-Wan, Leia, and Tala make their escape from the Inquisitor’s fortress? With the Empire surely on their tail, Obi-Wan soon finds himself relying on the aid of an old acquaintance who is less than thrilled to see him. Canon-Divergent starting immediately after Part IV of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Rated T for a few harmless swear words.

A one shot first chapter that can be read alone and is now being expanded into a full-fledged arc.

Re: Fic rec

[annathecrow]

Thanks for the rec!

Also, I love your icon :D