dreamwars | Chat corner 39: The Return of the Jedi

As you know, Bob, the Dark Side post is here for all your ranty needs.

It makes me happy! It's definitely one of my favorites. Of course, I can tell what was put in there for promotional purposes (slave!Leia, the ewoks), but I really love Luke and Vader both trying to turn each other, one out of compassion, and one out of a twisted form of it that later bleeds into real compassion. I think the original trio look great in it too, so there's that.

slave!Leia is eww, but I adore how fandom twisted it into "Leia the Huttslayer", because that's badass :D

I freely admit, I loved and still love Ewoks. XD They're just too cute.

This movie really drives home the relationship between Luke & Vader and it's heartbreaking. I'm not always in the "redemption equals death" camp, but I think it works here so well.

I do like her being the Huttslayer!

Oh, I love the ewoks too! So cute. It's fun when Star Wars adds in a new species.

Yeah, I feel you with that, but it worked in Vader's case. I always tear up when I see Force ghost!Anakin watching Luke and Leia at the celebration on Endor.

I have to admit that RotJ is my least favorite of the original trilogy. (Well, one of them has to be!) While Luke's story is great, Han and Leia have almost nothing to do. It always bothered me even as a kid that Leia was rescued by the Ewoks, got a new frock and hairdo, and just didn't bother to try to find her friends or make allies out of the Ewoks. Was she just planning on living in a treehouse her entire life?

Luke's plan to get Han out of Jabba's palace was so chaotic (why would he get them all imprisoned first? Why didn't Lando just unfreeze Han? I know, I know, ~romance, but honestly), but it was fun. And his final duel in the Death Star was so, so good.

RotJ has the best deleted scenes. I'd give anything for that deleted sandstorm scene to be included! And one thing I loved about the first two movies was seeing opposing points of view within the Empire; it would have been nice if they hadn't cut so many of Jerjerrod's scenes.

ETA there's also this raw footage from Yoda's hut. It's fascinating how different the tone of the movie would have been with some of these cut lines included, especially Yoda explaining that Ben would have told Luke Vader was his father long ago but Yoda didn't let him, and that "sorry" wasn't going to cut it regarding Luke's first confrontation with Vader. (It's also really interesting, to me, to see how the performance evolved over multiple takes.)

I'm reading JW Rinzler's The Making of RotJ right now and it's fascinating how much of what happened in this movie (in terms of story line, production, etc.) was GL's reaction against ESB. Originally they had so many wild ideas! They thought about the rebels attacking the Imperial City, Luke facing Vader in his lava palace, Leia leading a strike force to a grassy planet to take out a communications tower and shield generator that was protecting two Death Stars.

Anyway, despite its flaws, this is always a fun rewatch. Would be even better with approximately 64% fewer Ewoks though ;)

Edited 2022-01-17 17:53 (UTC)

When you say Lucas' reaction against ESB, was it because he was dissatisfied with the storyline in it? Or that he was just trying to create something different?

I think the main problem was that ESB was way over budget and way over schedule -- and GL had literally bet the farm on it, so it was his money at stake. Turned out to be a brilliant business move for him, but you can see why he was angry at the time, even if it was worth it for the sake of the film we got. That kind of bled into everything else.

Ah, yes. In retrospect ESB seems like the safest bet ever but I can imagine it was different at the time. Of course New Hope getting finished and released at all seemed so perilous given what I saw in a documentary but having to run so much more of the production would have created new stresses.

It's amazing in hindsight that a sequel after SW wasn't assumed! And, since sequels historically do much worse than the original, ESB wasn't a sure thing, even with the success of SW. It definitely made GL more conservative on RotJ--for instance, no more faraway sets, filming in Arizona and California instead of Tunisia or Norway.

I thought RotJ was a good ending to a trilogy. Also, Luke’s character arc was the best.

I agree, Luke's character arc in this movie (or, well, the way this movie completes his character arc) is so good. I always loved the beginning, how he returns to Tatooine: older, wiser, ten times more badass.

Agreed on all of that!

yes Luke's arc was the best!! He's a great warrior and what is his final act during the duel? To throw away his weapon! That was not what I expected him to do the first time I saw this movie.

I like Luke for his compassion and heart. It’s why he remains one of my favorite movie characters of all time.

Same!

I remember being sad that there wasn't going to be any more. There was vague talk of more trilogies but they clearly weren't imminent and then were so disappointing when they appeared. But I felt it wrapped things up sufficiently and there were some new reveals such as Luke and Leia being siblings. That's kind of taken for granted now but it had huge implications for the end of the trilogy as far as Leia's future was concerned, and the central trio of characters literally becoming a family.

It's bizarre to realize that GL was planning the prequel and sequel trilogies for so long, and they actually got made (whatever the result was).

I keep forgetting that Leia & Luke being siblings is only from the last movie! Yeah, that must have really made waves...

Return of the Jedi has always been my favorite Star Wars movies. I always gravitate towards good endings. I love a redemption story. Basically, ROTJ is everything I love about Star Wars.

same for me about the good endings and redemption stories :) It has the right balance between sad and happy.

I came across the community

gar_hq and this post on medals awarded to clones.

I also posted about my SWTOR class story experience with the Jedi Consular chapter 1.

Consular is my favourite class story because I actually felt like I was doing the actual job of a Jedi (I’m sad that people hate on it so much, I hated the Knight story for comparison). Chapter 2 is the best I feel but I felt pretty damn accomplished by the final on Corellia.
The way you advance so quickly through the ranks of the order and are entrusted with so much responsibility at such a young age also gave me a new perspective on things and by the end I admit I made a few dark side choices out of compassion fatigue. Why was it always me? (I know, I’m the main character!)
Companions were an interesting bunch but I think that was the point, to have to work together with people from totally different walks of life and sometimes even opposing views to your teachings.
I sort of want to play it again when 7.0 hits and make a ridiculous dark side play through with a Sidious style Sorcerer scheming to destroy the order because apparently they still trust you even if you keep killing everyone *zap zap*

I also much prefer the Consular to the Knight so far! (And the Knight... it doesn't have the ludonarrative dissonance baked into the very concept of the class the Smuggler has and the Bounty Hunter will probably also have, but it's my least favorite of the class stories that are organically part of their faction. Not helped by the fact that I played Imperial Agent immediately after and was retroactively outraged at the way the Knight story mishandled the Chapter 2 conclusion thing compared to the Agent's Chapter 2.)

I only have Qyzen and Tharan so far, but I agree on the companions – the set reminds me a bit more of the Agent, with its thematic companions, as opposed to the Knight's, who somehow remained generic (even if T7-01 is amazing and I love him). I'm meh on Tharan, but Qyzen has really grown on me. There's a depth to him, and I like how complicated he's allowed to be even if his core concept is pretty simple. My Shadow ended up killing all the rakghouls on Taris instead of stealthing through so that Qyzen could get his Scorekeeper points.

a ridiculous dark side play through with a Sidious style Sorcerer scheming to destroy the order because apparently they still trust you even if you keep killing everyone *zap zap*
This sounds amazingly fun! Do report back should it happen.

Ooooh, that post about medals is crunchy, thanks for the link. I'll need to lurk around that comm a bit.

Chat corner 39: The Return of the Jedi

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