Chat corner 109: Phantom Menace

[annathecrow]

Welcome to the Monday chat corner!

This week we start another round through the Star Wars movies, with Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. If you’re curious or nostalgic, you can check out our chat from 2021 and 2022. Otherwise, well, what do you think? Who is your favorite and least-favorite character? And have you ever read/watched/played any tie-in EU material?

Comments

[fleurviolette]

Duel of the Fates is an iconic cinematic score from John Williams. It’s so hauntingly epic!

[annathecrow]

It really is! The Prequels score is great in general, a worthy continuation of the Original Trilogy.

[atamascolily]

I saw this movie in theaters when it first came out and at the time, I thought it was fine overall--maybe not what I wanted/expected, (and I found Jar-Jar's antics annoying) but I couldn't figure out why people were so upset by it. I thought the whole Padme Amidala plotline and "Duel of the Fates" sequence were EPIC.

Looking back on it twenty years later, the film has some pacing and story issues, but I think a lot of that had to do with a) George Lucas not having a collaborator willing to challenge him on certain things, and b) a huge mismatch between the story Lucas wanted to tell and the story that fans were expecting. Do I like it as much as the OT? No. But it's weird and zany and constantly pushing the envelope and it's still a fun watch, even the parts that make me roll my eyes. I certainly don't think it deserves all the hate it gets.

I also remember the HUGE media blitz before and after the film's release, and all of the marketing that went with it. For some reason, the soft drink cans and potato chip bags with the actors' faces on them are still vivid in my memory after all this time.

Also, shout-on to the Darths and Droids webcomic for re-imagining this movie as an RPG campaign. They end up doing all the films, but this was where it started, and my personal favorite of all of the "adaptations".

[annathecrow]

Awww, Darths and Droids! I remember reading that, although I think I've never finished. It' hilarious, definitely recommended.

[extrapenguin]

Thanks for linking to Darths and Droids! I'm currently up to ESB and I like the canon divergences they've set up so far.

[havendale]

Qui-Gon Jinn remains far and away my favourite character from TPM! I am a very easy Star Wars fan to please insofar as I’ll watch basically anything with a Qui-Gon cameo in it.

From a critical perspective TPM is not my favourite of the PT. But it’s a gorgeous film to look at (dodgy CGI notwithstanding), and one thing I think it does quite well is creating a galaxy that feels genuinely huge, cosmopolitan, and full of adventure — you’ve got everything from underwater cities to ancient temples to podraces.

[annathecrow]

Oh, hey, another Qui-Gon fan! Judging from AO3 fanfic, you'd think it was compulsory to hate his guts XD

I like how you describe TPM's galaxy as "cosmopolitan", because that's something that I really agree with - both the Senate and the Jedi Council are full of different species and it truly feels like this is a place where humans are just one of many.

[havendale]

Honestly I am basically a feral cat hissing defensively when it comes to Qui-Gon. He’s terrific! I remain bewildered as to why a large part of the fandom decided he was the worst person in the GFFA.

[annathecrow]

It's the Jedi Apprentice books! Qui-Gon did a few questionable things in the movie, and the series took those and ran with them. Jude Watson develops him into a complex, flawed character, but that unfortunately flies miles above the heads of the intended kid audience. So they (and everyone who gets the series plot through fandom osmosis) end up with "Qui-Gon is evil".

Funnily enough, the writer must have realized what happened from reader feedback, because the later books are all "Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon love each other, for reals!" but obviously at that point the damage had been done.

I have read the series in my thirties for fanfic writing reasons, and it's been a bewildering experience. Why does something with kid-level plotting and language have more complex character work than many "grown up" books????

[havendale]

I do dearly love the characterisation in Jedi Apprentice! Qui-Gon slowly thawing and becoming a better mentor to Obi-Wan is a very well-done arc IMO.

I wonder if part of the fandom reaction to Jedi Apprentice stems from the fact that some of the fluffier moments written by Watson aren't found in the main series but in the related books? The Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan section in Legacy of the Jedi, for instance, is very sweet, with Qui-Gon spending most of the adventure trying to build up Obi-Wan’s self-confidence, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it referenced in fic.

(Guiltily sliding in a reply notwithstanding that the Friday post is already up.)

[annathecrow]

Hmm, you might be right - and considering the nicer Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan interaction is in the later JA books, maybe a lot of people have never read that far.

Thanks for mention Legacy of the Jedi btw, I haven't read that one! And sorry about the fansplaining - I should have guessed you would have known the series better than me! :D

_{(lol, I don't think that's a problem around here! At least I dearly hope so, because I'm always behind on replies and carrying on conversations long after the comm has moved on XD)}

[seascribble]

All of the lightsaber action and the Duel of the Fates as well as the Acting in Qui-Gon's death scene are epic. Did anybody else have the little lightsaber spoons that came in the cereal boxes?

Honestly, I think aside from Jar Jar Binks being just Too Much, it was a really good film. I saw it when I was 10 and I stand by that assessment. :D

[annathecrow]

:D I was 7 when I saw it and lol, same. My theory is that TPM might be a weak movie in general but a great kids' movie.

[seascribble]

Ewan McGregor's always saying they made it for the kids, and I think he was right. The kids loved it, and now we're grown up and we....still love it. *eats cheerios with a lightsaber spoon*

[extrapenguin]

I liked it! Yeah, the podrace went on a bit too long, but then again, so did the fucking Ewoks in RotJ. And there was zero sexual harassment! (Unlike ESB...) Watching the other movies made me appreciate it more lol. I don't even particularly mind Jar-Jar Binks.

Favorite character: Well, Maul is iconic and I love his character trajectory from Sith zealot to Ezra's moderately evil uncle. For characters whose characterization mainly comes from this movie, I like Shmi! She's sympathetic and it's fascinating how much her personal philosophy ("you can't stop change", "the biggest problem in the galaxy is that no-one helps each other") resembles the Jedi's. Also a lot of potential for fanfic, in that she can easily be headcanoned as Force sensitive, given how that's shown to be hereditary.

The handmaiden thing is interesting worldbuilding, though Padmé is too rich for me to be able to give a fuck about her, and most handmaiden stuff is obviously Padmé-centric. I don't really have a least favorite character, though, as everyone ranges from "I like them!" to "well, I guess they're ... there?" The worst I can say is that I dislike the fanon treatment of e.g. Obi-Wan, but that's not really the movie's fault.

[annathecrow]

"zero sexual harassment" -- ouch, but true :D

I like Maul in TPM! My only reason is that he looks cool, and I feel that I don't need any other :P He has such a great design.

I needed to grow up and get some pointers from fanfic to really appreciate Shmi, but I'm ever thankful for both because now she's probably my favorite SW character right now.

[annathecrow]

I think this is the right place to throw a link to a thing I wrote about The Phantom Menace, where the thesis basically is "TPM is a good movie in its genre, but most people don't realize what genre it really is".